Processing 1.0 - Processing Discourse - Changing Forum Software

REAS

Changing Forum Software
Jun 9^th, 2010, 11:42pm

Hello Processors,

We hear many disgruntled opinions about this forum software (YaBB). We've been using versions of YaBB since the Processing forum started on 3 Aug, 2002 and it has served the community well. However, we're considering two things right now:

// 1. Changing Forum Software

We're thinking about moving over to Zoho's software:
http://www.zoho.com/discussions/open-source.html

Currently jQuery and Cinder are using it and it looks great.

// 2. Rebooting the Forum (Again)

When we released the beta version of the Processing software, we archived the Alpha forum and started again from scratch. This was a great way to purge examples that no longer worked with the newer beta syntax. We didn't start from a clean slate between Beta and 1.0 because the syntax remained largely the same, but I'm feeling like it's time to start anew.

What do you, the Processing forum users, think about both ideas?

Cedric

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #1 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 12:38am

Changing the Forum is definitely a good idea. I am not very happy with YaBB either, although i got used to it and dont have any big problems beside the fact that i cant change my PW or signature anymore... But yes, switching to Zoho is probably a good idea.

I am not sure about rebooting the board though. But thats a must anyway when changing to Zoho, right? or would there be a way to import old postings and user settings? Helping here often relies on leading people to other posts, i have a pretty good overview of what has been said and done here in the last 1-2 years and i often come back to older posts. so this board is kind of my programming memory. As long as it can still be searched the way it can be right now, using google, not the YaBB search itself, everything is alright and i believe the community would benefit in the long term.

twitter.com/CedricKiefer

PhiLho

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #2 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 1:06am

I just had a look at the jQuery forum as visitor, it looks good, search is fast and accurate, topics can be marked as answered, there is a copy code button, etc.
I wonder if it is compatible with Copy for Discourse... (even if there aren't so many people using it, I am guilty too)
So this Zoho forum looks modern and efficient, so why not?

But as Cedric pointed out, if this move is made, this forum should be put in read-only mode to allow searches, as there is a great wealth of information, code and user experience there.

jeffg

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #3 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 7:42am

PhiLho mentioned the "Answered" marking - that would be really nice.

Not sure if this is available in Zoho or not (maybe in the Feedback Widget), but it would be cool to give credit to people that answer questions based on some point system that results in stars, symbols, or maybe something like Wikipedia. PhiLho is a Splendid and Majestic Tutnum of Processing.

That might help motivate people in assisting others and coming up with good examples. I know it's worked in other forms of social media. The support community is an important asset to Processing (one of the reasons I choose it myself), so it would be nice to provide some recognition for contributions to the community.

We definitely need to keep the ability to search the old threads. I get a great deal of info from them.

REAS

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #4 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 8:42am

I'm very glad to hear the positive mood about the change from the people whose opinion on this matters the most. I would say at the very least, the board content will not disappear, as with the Alpha board:
http://www.processing.org/discourse/yabb/

I'll look closely into potential migration. I am a little worried about moving over all user accounts because there's so much noise in the signal (the spammers). As you know, our attempts to weed out the bad seeds had to be reverted because of how it affected legitimate users.

REAS YaBB Moderator Offline Posts: 712 CA	Re: Changing Forum Software Reply #5 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 8:44am I'll also use this thread to soft-launch the new Processing wiki. One idea of the Wiki is to port over valuable and general discussion content from the board into a more clear and edited state: http://wiki.processing.org

Quark Senior Member Offline Posts: 411 UK	Re: Changing Forum Software Reply #6 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 9:04am Zoho discussions looks great, I notice that there is support for forum migration but YaBB was not mentioned - shame about that. I also agree with the others that we still want access to the current forum contents. Edited: Hmm started this post before REAS replies so some of this is already out of date

Cedric

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #7 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 9:39am

great to see the new processing wiki. its a great addition to the forum. Most of the time in the discours its useful not only to see the solution of a problem but also how people got there cause it helps solving your own, maybe similar problems.
but the wiki is a good place to store all those little snippets and useful examples, that people need on a everyday basis.

twitter.com/CedricKiefer

PhiLho

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #8 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 9:42am

REAS wrote on Jun 10^th, 2010, 8:42am:

I am a little worried about moving over all user accounts because there's so much noise in the signal (the spammers).

I wouldn't mind, personally, to have to create a new account in the new forum.
I would loose my message count but I don't care because it counts messages here, not in new forum.
I would have to redo settings, which isn't too much time consuming.

I don't see major issue in a need to register again, unless I miss something.

Jo Wood

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #9 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 9:46am

I'd have no problem with a migration to smoother, more modern looking forum software. Zoho does look good. I think my personal preference would be for a 'clean start' with new accounts, as long as this forum was still searchable for old posts.

It would also be an opportunity to think about a small redesign of the sub-boards. In particular, I think very few people (myself included) have a clear idea of the difference between the 'syntax' and 'program' boards. It would seem to make sense to merge these. If a 'bugs' board could link to the bug reporting software rather than to a board of deleted posts, that too would make sense.

We also tend to see a number of FAQs asked in the various boards (e.g. how to do collision detection, rotating objects about their centre etc.). I wonder if a new board would give the opportunity to index these as they emerge (would require some work by the board moderators I guess).

A minor point, but this may also require a modification to the 'copy for discourse' functionality of the Processing IDE, or even better, some server-side translation of the forum markup to work with Zoho.

Thanks for the consultation too.

Jo.

Cedric

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #10 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 10:08am

Quote:

We also tend to see a number of FAQs asked in the various boards (e.g. how to do collision detection, rotating objects about their centre etc.). I wonder if a new board would give the opportunity to index these as they emerge (would require some work by the board moderators I guess).

i believe this is what the wiki is going to be there for.

@PhilHo, the new board seems to count as well. Created topics and replies ... http://forum.libcinder.org/#User/flight404 in the upper right.

twitter.com/CedricKiefer

geoffroy

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #11 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 11:13am

I vote for resting the forum - the wiki is really wicked idea Wink

that will help a lot in the sorting out of the knowledge !

Forum have a life - and when it's ready to die it's good to let it go - archive it for reference and rebuilt it from scratch, so the code are up to date and the community is also up to date.

I think it's also good if we have to re-create our user (again for the fresh start feeling), and also having a point system (like ubuntu forum) so you have a sense of who says what.

my 2 cents

REAS

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #12 - Jun 10^th, 2010, 2:25pm

Here's the proposed list of forums for new new software:

01 Getting Started
Ask questions here if you're new to Processing and programming.

02 Exhibition
Share and discuss your Processing programs.

03 Events and Opportunities
Promote processing-related conferences, courses, workshops, books, concerts, articles, jobs, etc.

04 Programming Questions
Ask questions about a Processing program you are writing.

05 Core Libraries
Questions about programs using the Video, Network, OpenGL, Serial, PDF, Minim, or SXF Export libraries.

06 Contributed Libraries
Questions about a contributed library: http://processing.org/reference/libraries/

07 Integration
Discuss Processing and other systems (Linux, Java, PHP, MySQL, Eclipse, etc.)

08 Processing Implementations
Discussions about Processing.js, Processing and Ruby, Python, ActionScript, Scala, etc.

09 Library Development
Discuss creating Processing libraries, extensions to the code.

10 Tool Development
Discuss creating Processing tools, extensions to the environment.

11 Processing Core Development
Discuss building, refining, and delousing the Processing code.

Notes:
* Move all bug and suggestions discussion to Google Code
* Move project announcements to a blog?

Jo Wood

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #13 - Jun 11^th, 2010, 12:24am

Having now looked at the Wiki I can see how that should provide a really nice way of harvesting FAQs and the accumulated wisdom of the Processing community. You've done an excellent job in getting it started - thanks.

I also like the new plan for the 11 forum areas. I do wonder though whether forum 1 (Getting started) and forum 4 (programming) will suffer from the same confusion we currently have with 'syntax' and 'programs'. At what stage does one move from a 'beginner' to a 'programmer'? We already have posts along the lines of 'this is my first attempt at a Processing sketch...but am having problems with 2-dimensional arrays of String collections' (OK, I exaggerate, but you get the point).

Do we get enough posts about setting up Processing or getting any sketch/applet to appear to justify a beginning Processing forum that excludes programming issues all together?

PhiLho

Re: Changing Forum Software
Reply #14 - Jun 11^th, 2010, 1:04am

I would suggest to move Programming questions before Exhibition, so people stumble upon it before Exhibition: some people exhibit their unfinished work and ask for help in the latter.

Actually, I agree with Jo Wood, the division between "beginners" and "programmers" is a bit subtle, perhaps a big section to ask for help is enough.

No longer a section to report Web site/reference bugs? Or does it belong to Google Code as well?
Maybe a permissive General Discussion section — allowing even discussions about sport or TV shows... hey, they can even be related to Processing! (stats, video, ...) — would be useful to vent off...