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Topic: bagel (Read 426 times) |
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arielm
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Re: bagel
« Reply #2 on: May 23rd, 2003, 1:25pm » |
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personally, i think director 3d is a failure...
lingo is great for beginners (i even learned what object oriented means with it!), but it's pretty limited and somehow ill-formed (i'm sure macromedia engineers are dreaming of having javascript in place!)
then, a lot of lingo developpers (with the bad habits they inherited from the use of this language) are faced to the new 3d capabilities in director 8.5 and it just stops there... too complicated, too weird...
now how all this relates to proce55ing?
i see proce55ing as a smooth-migration opportunity for macromedia oriented developpers: just the time to get use with java and to start envisonning concepts taken from the openGL world...
and then, when you are confident enough (i'm still not there!), you can fly by yourself, using something like:
http://www.mind2machine.com/gb/openmind/index.php
java + openGL = cross platform + hardware acceleration = the end of the world
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Ariel Malka | www.chronotext.org
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fry
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Re: bagel
« Reply #3 on: May 27th, 2003, 10:58pm » |
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we really haven't done anything that maxes out the 3d capabilities of bagel, though it's possible you'd be able to build something like that director app. i dunno, i don't really know enough about director 3d to say for sure.
the general intent is that bagel will be good enough to do reasonable 3d on the web, something that couldn't be done formerly without additional plugins or java3d or headaches of installation (though nowadays, java is sometimes becoming a headache to install..)
in the future (not sure if it's 1.0 or not.. it depends on whether i'll need more speed for my dissertation work) we will have a layer that uses opengl underneath, via gl4java. so, without changing your code, you just flip a switch and it's rendering using java+gl inside p5 instead of pure java. i've already done this once, for a subset of the bagel api (for this project: http://acg.media.mit.edu/people/fry/gc/) but i haven't kept it up-to-speed with the rest of the changes in the graphics engine, so we don't have it included with the p5 releases. for the future it might be fun though..
it provides more speed (maybe 2x right off the bat) though there's still the issue of the interface between java and gl being slow, and java itself being slow, so it's still half the speed of a c++/opengl app (which is what i had to do with the previous project i mentioned).
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arielm
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Re: bagel
« Reply #4 on: May 28th, 2003, 4:46pm » |
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fry,
processing coupled with gl4java? could'nt ask for more!!! (will it be ready for christmas, santa?)
i think the gain with nvidia-like graphic cards could be more than x2...
hey, al4java (3d sound) could be nice too in the future 
saw this page of yours:
http://acg.media.mit.edu/people/fry/chromosomes
with which configuration did you code the interactive "non-linear magnification" of chromosome 22? (looks great, even when it's flat)
and this one looks terrific too (too bad the quicktime movie is unviewable on my xp):
http://acg.media.mit.edu/people/fry/tendril
is it also real-time? done with something similar to the "vlw" fonts? at 64x64 pixels per char?
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| « Last Edit: May 28th, 2003, 5:15pm by arielm » |
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Ariel Malka | www.chronotext.org
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fry
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Re: bagel
« Reply #5 on: Jun 3rd, 2003, 1:56am » |
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yeah, i think the gl4java thing will happen when we get someone who decides to take on the maintenance project. this was one of the things that kicked off the idea (between casey and i) of starting the 'collaboration' section of the site, since we have lots of mini projects like that that have gone underserved simply for lack of time.
the nonlinear magnification on 22 is done using a huge grid of particles, which are perturbed by the mouse. four particles (two to the left and right of each other, and then the two beneath them) make a box which is a small subsection of image, and then you apply some physics to make the particles move around. the poster is a snapshot of the interactive version, which i should make into a p5 app and post.
the tendril thing is indeed also based on vlw fonts, but done with 'acu', which is our internal library used at acg that's a c++ and opengl framework. (fwiw, some of the better ideas from acu made it into bagel, i.e. tom white's math for mixing 2D and 3D coordinate spaces). tendril is interactive, it's actually a regular web browser that can be used real time. sadly, it's too computation intensive to run from p5.. letters are placed individually, and that's thousands of characters to render per frame.
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