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Topic: Just the right place to exhibit your creations! (Read 845 times) |
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Ates Goral
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Just the right place to exhibit your creations!
« on: Nov 5th, 2003, 7:55pm » |
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Wow! I've just stumbled upon "Processing" and was astonished at the applets at the exhibition. The thought struck me just after then...
Twofifty (twofifty.net) is now a 4-year old website dedicated to exhibiting 250 by 250 pixel artwork. There are a total of 1300+ hand-picked pieces on display.
Most of them are static images in JPEG or GIF format, but there are also many animated/interactive Flash or Shockwave applets (we have only one Java so far) that give it the original twist (aside from the tons and tons of digital art galleries out there).
How about fitting your finished products or experimentations to exactly 250 by 250 pixels and submitting them to Twofifty? The rules are simple:
1. 250 x 250. No smaller, no larger.
2. No sound or music.
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Jerronimo
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #1 on: Nov 5th, 2003, 8:22pm » |
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The site doesn't work for me. All i see is a lot of sections with the text: [Loading...]
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Ates Goral
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #2 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 7:23am » |
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Jeronimo: What OS and browser are you using? Twofifty requires a standards-compliant, modern browser such as Mozilla Firebird or IE 6...
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Jerronimo
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #3 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 2:37pm » |
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OS X running Safari.
It seems silly that I'd need more than that to display 250x250 images/java programs. It displays every other page on the planet pretty much fine.
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Ates Goral
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #4 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 5:19pm » |
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Thanks for the input! I didn't know about this issue. I'll definitely look into it as soon as I get my hands on a Mac.
Quoting:
"It seems silly that I'd need more than that to display 250x250 images/java programs..."
Well, it seems silly, but it is not.  I thought I had to draw the line between downward browser compatibility versus supporting the latest standardizes technology. One can't have progress by constantly minding the past... Twofifty uses w3.org-compliant code (HTML, CSS, DOM). It's especially tested to work best on Mozilla, since it's the most standards-compliant browser on the planet right now. With a few tweaks, I also thought I should support IE 6 because 90% (?) of the people use IE 6.
Just a quick quote from http://contactsheet.org/articles/2003/06/23/safari_10_browser_compliance .html:
"I concentrate on IE/O/Moz - then I take my chances unless I'm asked to specifically target a browser. Chances are if you cover IE/0/Moz your site should work well in any other browser worth having. Promised myself a long time ago that I wouldn't pander to the bleeding edge minorities, which Safari still is. Unless you target an audience full of die hard Macsturbators then I guess in the right here and now it's not essential to work on any "be nice to Safari" fixes."
I stumbled upon this discussion thread when I typed in "safari compliance" at Google right after receiving your problem report about the Safari browser. Well, I honestly agree with the mentality above. And apparently, it's not a minority that think so...
I'm sorry you cannot access Twofifty. Oh you're missing so much!  And I know it's a shame that Twofifty doesn't work with some browsers like Safari, but I cannot afford to loose functionality (Twofifty employs some heeeeaaavy JavaScript code for a smooth browsing experience) in order to support all browsers out there. 
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mohn
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #6 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 5:45pm » |
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on Nov 6th, 2003, 7:23am, Ates Goral wrote:| Jeronimo: What OS and browser are you using Twofifty requires a standards-compliant, modern browser such as Mozilla Firebird or IE 6... |
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hmm i thought safari is a standards compliant modern browser. guess i better switch back to surfing the web on my i586 with IE6...
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shogunmoon
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #7 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 6:00pm » |
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YOu are not using any standards I know of. It doesn't work in Mac IE, or camino either (camino is a gheko based browser, just like mozilla and firebird.) Most of the planet that actually uses standards have no trouble getting thigns to work in any of these browsers.
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shogunmoon
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #8 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 6:21pm » |
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I am not trying to be a jerk or anything, it is just a hobby site. Just pointing out that it doesn't work on any mac browser, except mozilla itself. Macs are in the minority, but there are a lot of artists that use them. It is one thing to not have it work in safari (now at 1.1, more standards complient then ever blah blah blah), but to not have it work in camino or IE is a different thing altogether. If you were a professional web developer, this would not be acceptable.
Since as a hobby site, it is your deal. You have the right to alienate whoever you want.
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Ates Goral
 
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #9 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 7:53pm » |
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shogunmoon:
"Since as a hobby site, it is your deal. You have the right to alienate whoever you want."
You're absolutely right about that 
Anyway, I just heard about "Safari" today. If I had a chance to see it in action, I could probably fix the problem since I believe it's only a minor glitch. I just need the error message that probably appears in the JavaScript console of the browser.
Even IE 6 profoundly sucks in terms of compliance. It has sooo many stupid bugs and missing features. I can't stop but believe Safari might have some piece of the soup missing there...
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Jerronimo
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #10 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 8:15pm » |
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Well, Safari has been around for public beta for at least a year now. Odd that you're just finding out about it now.
This is what the log says:
http://twofifty.net/:TypeError - Undefined value
I downloaded Mozilla to see your page, and quickly deleted it from my hard disk. Man... it's like walking backwards in time. It felt like i was stepping back to 1993, and using Mosaic 1.0 again. I think I'll stick with Safari.
In all honesty, your attitude in here has basically turned me off from even trying to look at your site. I'll just stay here with my non-modern, non-standards-compliant browser "not even worth having", and enjoy the hell out of it as i look at the other 98% of the web who seem to get things to work just fine on this browser.
"Well, I honestly agree with the mentality above. And apparently, it's not a minority that think so... "
Just because there's a majority of people who think something, doesn't mean it's the proper thing to do.
Feel free to write art-based web pages that exclude the majority of your audience. I'll stay here and keep making pages that are accessible by everyone.
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arielm
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #11 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 8:56pm » |
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(my quick impressions about twofifty.net: nice site, nice intiative and yes, nice use of dhtml as a mean to make smarter sites!)
now, my 2 cents on the "browser war" issue, both as a processing "developper" and as a web-designer:
explorer (on pc): no discussion about it, it rules the "market", and personally i think it rocks (by the way, what i saw from twofifty.net works well also on ie 5.5, which is a wise thing)
mozilla (mac & pc) is a nice concept (in theory), and it's important to design sites that take it in count, but my opinion is that it's a public failure (no one is really using it, also it's too much "standards" fanatic...)
safari (mac): seems to be the new de-facto standard for OSX people, and it's not a secret that a lot of artists and designers are using macs (the "audience" for twofify, no?)... so i think efforts should be made to support this one too.
ie 5 (mac): also still very popular too...
it's not "mission-impossible" but it definitely adds a lot of headaches, and of course, it requires possessing a mac (one of my todo's by the way...)
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Ariel Malka | www.chronotext.org
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Ates Goral
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Re: Just the right place to exhibit your creations
« Reply #12 on: Nov 6th, 2003, 11:55pm » |
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Jerronimo, thanks for the detailed error report. Is there also line number? I unfortunately can't deduce anything from the error message. If you have the time, I would really appreciate if you could tell me the line number if it's given.
I'm aware of the big problem. It's a shame that Twofifty targets designers and most designers out there use Macs. The site is truly missing a lot of relevant audience. But I've anyway chosen to push techology to its limits --instead of cutting down from what is possible just to be %100 compliant with everyone-- and just wait for the majority of the browsers and their users to catch up with the standards. I suppose it won't take more than a year that fully w3c compliant browsers will roam the planet.
I would also like to clarify several things...
Firstly, I'm not a Mac user and therefore I naturally didn't hear about Safari before. And I didn't at any point claim it to be "bad" browser because I have no opinions about it
Jerronimo and arielm, I'm not talking about "Mozilla" as my favorite browser. I'm specifically talking about "Mozilla FIREBIRD". It's different! It's a "lean, mean browsing machine" as quoted from the mozilla.org website. Version 0.7 for MacOS X can be downloaded here:
http://ftp.mozilla.org/pub/mozilla.org/firebird/releases/0.7.1/firebird- 0.7.1-mac.dmg.gz
I don't have the words to describe how good Mozilla Firebird is. Take my word for it
Lastly, this forum thread has way gone past the main topic. Let's try to drop the browser talk before a moderator closes or removes this thread...
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Anyway, everyone who are able to view twofifty.net with their current browsers are invited to join in and display their creations!
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| « Last Edit: Nov 6th, 2003, 11:55pm by Ates Goral » |
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