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Older Processing versions (Read 4985 times)
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #15 - Feb 11th, 2010, 4:32pm
 
blindfish wrote on Feb 11th, 2010, 4:11pm:


TBH I think you're asking an awful lot from something that you aren't paying for.  Processing is a teaching tool.  If from the developer's experience changing the case of a function or property makes it easier for new students to understand, they'll make those changes - it's not a particularly big effort for the rest of us to implement them.  There are plenty of working examples on the site for you to learn from.  If you go off searching for content in the wild wild web then you do so at your own risk...

I wasn't searching for this example; I stumbled upon it, just like I do with a lot of things that interest me. If it's not a big effort to implement changes in Processing function and variable names, then more developers would make an effort to keep their code up-to-date with the most recent version of Processing. But they don't, and that's the problem.

Also by their very nature OS projects can grow organically and it's hard to predict every development that's going to take place.  Perhaps once you have some real programming experience under your belt you'll be in a position to be making these criticisms, but right now I don't think you've got a leg to stand on.  I've found Processing an incredibly useful learning tool and have made huge progress since I started using it and whilst there have been occasional changes these have been - in my experience at least - infrequent and relatively trivial.

I'm sure it is useful if you understand it. But lacking a structured environment available to do that, one must use any free time they might have to try to capture the essence of the language and try to implement it so it works. That can be a very long process, given those circumstances. For the record, I can program in PostScript, but that doesn't help me with this particular example code that I found.

Finally - you seem to have based your decision that no-one can help, and this subsequent complaint, on the fact that a day old post you made has received a single response and hasn't seen a successful resolution...  Sorry but you're going to have to learn to be a bit more patient: no-one is paying us to answer your questions. [/quote]

I'm not complaining about the effort of the person who responded to my post; I have shown it to others before now and they are unable to  make it work, too. So lack of patience is not something I suffer from, and this complaint is only tangentially related to that issue. I've never stated, inferred, or assumed that anyone is paid anything to help with an issue, assuming they can help.
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #16 - Feb 11th, 2010, 10:12pm
 
Okay, the simple resolution is this:

stick to the current documentation and examples first. Understand those first. If you don't have much understanding now, you will have understanding after going through the current examples, and will very possibly (if not probably) be able to answer many of the questions you have now for yourself.

Stop looking at the "examples that seem interesting" that are not current. If they are not current, you should consider getting them to work an advanced topic, best saved for later. Accept that "I simply want to get this example working in Processing 1.x" IS cherry-picking, regardless of what you think it is.

Accept also that your use of language does imply certain things; it is not merely our impression, that is the intent of the language. One possibility is that you often/usually use such language without realising its intent, or even do realise and use it in an aggressive manner whilst claiming not to. That isn't an assumption about your intentions, that is a possible scenario which you may or may not have considered, but one which myself (and it seems others here) have considered. Deal with it.

If you want an argument about who said what, that is called trolling, and my suggestion to all here is to stop answering.

Your way forward is to stick to the tutorials and other current learnig material. If you are interested in these other examples enough, it should encourage you to learn as much as possible to work out what to do.

If you want to see support for things that the Processing team don't do, try offering helpful suggestions such as "this particular media host X allows substantial and reliable storage without lots of ads and annoyance" instead of insisting that someone "should" have already found it and (necessarily) have used it.

Your expectation, whether reasonable or not, is that the Processing team should do a bunch of things. There is no law or rule which says these things must be done. You're not paying for them, and you also don't understand them. Your language is demanding, and you've had several people try to explain the situation. If you are still unhappy, there isn't much we can do about it.

-spxl
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #17 - Feb 12th, 2010, 1:00am
 
I have had a look at Eye for an Eye, which is very nice.

I downloaded the code, and downloaded and installed the referenced libraries (Traer Physics and the Genetic Algorithm Library created by the sketch's author).

The only Processing change is framereate() being renamed to frameRate(), and when I tried to "Run" the sketch, the Processing Language (API) - Changes page popped up in a browser window to tell me about it.

There are also (documented) changes to the Traer Physics library, and undocumented changes to the Genetic Algorithm library.

After an hour or so of working on it, I have a sketch running under Processing 1.0.9. The behaviour, however, is broken, and I suspect it has something to do with the notes for Traer Physics relating to what was previously the kill() method:
  • The library no longer automatically deletes forces with dead particles.
  • void removeParticle( int index )
    void removeParticle( Particle p )

    Note removing things shifts the indices and the library does not take responsibility for you deleting particles that forces refer to. e.g. if you have a spring between two particles and remove one things will definitely break.

Eye for an Eye is a complex example demonstrating a complex idea using a custom library. The drawing done (which is beautiful) is not by any means simple, and some of the details require an understanding of properties of objects in the custom genetic algorithm library. It has virtually no code comments and would require significant expertise to understand.

This is not an example for a beginner to learn from.

The main page for the Genetic Algorithm Library for Processing or Java at the RobotAcid site tells you how to contact the author:

Quote:
If you put together any work using the GA library Just drop me a line and I'll be happy to link to it here. Same goes for if you find any bugs, typos or just simply don't understand how this library works. Contact me at the Processing forums (st33d) or email me
{ see site for details }

-spxl
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #18 - Feb 12th, 2010, 2:27am
 
Thinking about that, perhaps authors could use Sourceforge, Google Code or similar to host older distributions, since Processing is open source. Hosting is free and SF has various mirrors to support download charge. But it still some work to install that, might need to put code there too (depending on policies), and so on. Quite some work.
And as said, the issue is less with Processing itself than with the needed libraries.
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #19 - Feb 12th, 2010, 3:27am
 
Updated sketch: Eye for an Eye

Update by subpixel for:
- Processing 1.0
- Traer Physics 3.0
- Genetic Algorithm Library (as at 2010-02-12)

See source code for changes

Original sketch by Aaron Steed: Eye for an Eye

-spxl
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #20 - Feb 12th, 2010, 4:01am
 
The Processing applet page was originally designed with the absence of libraries. We didn't have libraries back when the site was orange and brown (not any I can remember anyway).

Whenever I upload any source code these days, I do it with a zipped folder of the project. I'd recommend that perhaps processing should start producing applets in the same fashion, and thus we get less of these situations, because the dependant libraries can be bundled in the zip file. And most importantly - they will be versions of the library that work with the code presented.

You can run any project with libraries by just putting the library in a folder called "code", locally to the sketch pde - so this suggestion would be perfectly workable.

I've uploaded a zip file and changed the Eye 4 An Eye project page so a zip can be aquired, and thus this issue hopefully won't visit me again.

http://www.robotacid.com/PBeta/eye4anEye/index.html

I would probably keep this sort of work up to date and work on my site some more if I wasn't so deep into this project:

http://forums.tigsource.com/index.php?topic=8467.0

When I'm done with it, I'll come back and tidy my open source repository up properly. Promise.
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #21 - Feb 12th, 2010, 7:00am
 
[quote author=6D6B7C6E77667B721E0 link=1265900732/16#16 date=1265955142]Okay, the simple resolution is this:

stick to the current documentation and examples first. Understand those first. If you don't have much understanding now, you will have understanding after going through the current examples, and will very possibly (if not probably) be able to answer many of the questions you have now for yourself.

Stop looking at the "examples that seem interesting" that are not current. If they are not current, you should consider getting them to work an advanced topic, best saved for later. Accept that "I simply want to get this example working in Processing 1.x" IS cherry-picking, regardless of what you think it is.

And how do you suppose I'd know it's not current unless I try to run it? Divine inspiration?

Seeing something that is interesting and wanting to explore it are the hallmarks of the human, inquisitive mind. It's not cherry-picking, no matter what you might think.


Accept also that your use of language does imply certain things; it is not merely our impression, that is the intent of the language. One possibility is that you often/usually use such language without realising its intent, or even do realise and use it in an aggressive manner whilst claiming not to. That isn't an assumption about your intentions, that is a possible scenario which you may or may not have considered, but one which myself (and it seems others here) have considered. Deal with it.

Perhaps you should not be so quick to read something into it that isn't there. You don't speak for others, only yourself.

If you want an argument about who said what, that is called trolling, and my suggestion to all here is to stop answering.

It seems to me that you're the one arguing and trolling, so perhaps you should take your own advice.
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #22 - Feb 13th, 2010, 2:03am
 
Divine inspiration: code that comes with Processing is current.

I'm sorry you are so obstinate. I'm not answering you any more.

If you would like to pay me for the time I spent updating the project for you to try, that will be about $300.
Re: Older Processing versions
Reply #23 - Feb 13th, 2010, 2:45am
 
subpixel wrote on Feb 13th, 2010, 2:03am:
Divine inspiration: code that comes with Processing is current.

I'm sorry you are so obstinate. I'm not answering you any more.


+1 on that.  You'd think someone who wants to use the forums to learn would realise that being repeatedly rude to some of the most technically knowledgeable members (and I do not include myself in that) is not a good place to start  Roll Eyes


subpixel wrote on Feb 13th, 2010, 2:03am:
If you would like to pay me for the time I spent updating the project for you to try, that will be about $300.


And not even a single word of thanks - clearly more interested in being 'in the right' than the claimed intent...
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