We closed this forum 18 June 2010. It has served us well since 2005 as the ALPHA forum did before it from 2002 to 2005. New discussions are ongoing at the new URL http://forum.processing.org. You'll need to sign up and get a new user account. We're sorry about that inconvenience, but we think it's better in the long run. The content on this forum will remain online.
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1
DataFlow Programming (Read 2389 times)
DataFlow Programming
Jul 3rd, 2005, 6:22am
 
I got a comment from some people comming from environnements like MAX|MSP and PureData: they seems to be lost when they don't find a data-flow based environnement in P5.

Usually, it's well suited for DataFlow programming(DFP) as for Music(Reaktor,VAZ) or Electricity (as in LabVIEW). When I look to the Simon Greenwold's "Moment" Applet, it tells me that it's nice for 3D programming too. http://acg.media.mit.edu/people/simong/moment/index.html  

There's plenty of projects about Data-Flow Programming, but I can't see wich one is flexible enough and well suited for P5 integretion. Did someone had some tought about DFP integration in P5? Do you think that DFP could be a usefull interface implementation for P5 applets?
Re: DataFlow Programming
Reply #1 - Jul 3rd, 2005, 12:10pm
 
Thats an interesting way to put programs together but I'm not sure it quite fits the direction that processing is heading in. It almost makes things too complicated and (as a programmer) I don't see the advantages.
Re: DataFlow Programming
Reply #2 - Jul 3rd, 2005, 9:06pm
 
i think it's another interesting model for looking at things, though it's not where we're headed with processing. of course we'd love to have someone build a dataflow library/tool that runs on top of processing (i.e. you could add it to the tools menu) for people who like that model.

there's a whole set of advantages/disadvantages to dataflow programming, and it's not in processing largely because it's not how casey and i work since we find procedural programming more appropriate for the types of things we do.

you might also be misunderstanding simon's project a bit--he's building 3D structures which interact based on a set of rules, so a dataflow model works really nicely for visually setting up those sort of relationships. however that language is itself written in java, and the code that runs and draws the simulations is also written in java (plus some python). so while it's great for the rules, the "back end" is written in a procedural language.

anyhow.. we'd love to see an implementation, understanding the strength of things like max and for all the reasons people like it.
Re: DataFlow Programming
Reply #3 - Jul 5th, 2005, 9:37pm
 
Thanks for sharing your point of view about DFP. It helps because I’ve never used DataFlow programming intensively but I got this comment few times.

As I gain experience with JAVA, I don't feel that I'm missing something with Data-Flow models except maybe for one thing, when I have a set of well identified methods that I'm using in different ways. I could imagine that it could be helpful. At a certain stage of a design process, there’s a point where the exploration of variations on some parameters relationships on the general aspect could be helpful. It seems to be easier to visualize the structure and control changes with DataFlow. There's a kind of proximity with the result. Is it a compromise between coding and interface usability? But, as Markavian mentioned, for an experienced programmer, I could imagine that it is easier to read|use the code.

If my understanding is right, in the early CAD systems, there was a lack of relationship description between the forms and assembly; it was a low-level description (point-line-faces). This led to the development of CAD software as ProEngineer and CATIA based on Parametric Modeling (or Features Based Modeling) where the description of the relationship gives a sort of smartness to the geometry. There's a set of well identified topological grammar's rules and primitive that you combine to form complex objects. The usability the parametric relationship in "Moment" is really nice. I like software about geometry as Cabri or Cinderella, but I feel that the DataFlow is adding something nice in “Moment”.

One thing convincing about Simon's Applet is the possibility to write new methods within the Data Flow model. It looks more flexible in this way.
Re: DataFlow Programming
Reply #4 - Jul 6th, 2005, 12:14am
 
yeah, simon's stuff is really brilliant since he knows the strengths of both models of programming and has found a nice way to make it flexible for a specific domain.  

(simon, btw, is the same simon who did lots of work on 3D, lighting, and clipping shortly before the beta release, while he was TAing a course for me.. sharp as a tack, that guy)
Re: DataFlow Programming
Reply #5 - Jul 6th, 2005, 4:19pm
 
I must admit that I'm a Simon's fan. Wink
Re: DataFlow Programming
Reply #6 - Jul 10th, 2005, 11:49pm
 
DataFlow Discussion on the Alpha board: http://processing.org/discourse/yabb/YaBB.cgi?board=CourseBlueprints;action=display;num=1065627431
Page Index Toggle Pages: 1