Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

General Discussion Other

james.fry

Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

in General Discussion • Other • 3 years ago

Hello there,

I've just seen the new Processing Eclipse plugin - very cool, and something I'd been wanting for a long time, and something that I thought would be cool to have in other Eclipse RCP based applications. However, I thought it was impossible to achieve due to licencing conflicts (though when I started thinking about it I wondered if there were other conflicts already too).

The PDE and the processing script processor are licenced under the GPL.

The Processing library is under the LGPl.

The new Eclipse Plugin, and the Eclipse compiler are EPL.

However, the EPL and the GPL are incompatible licences when creating derivative works - which I think this falls into (And I think the PDE probably does re: the EPL).

From the EPL FAQ:

Are the Eclipse Public License (EPL) and the General Public License (GPL) compatible?
The EPL and the GPL are not compatible in any combination where the result would be considered either: (a) a �derivative work� (which Eclipse interprets consistent with the definition of that term in the U.S. Copyright Act ) or (b) a work �based on� the GPL code, as that phrase is used in the GPLv2, GPLv3 or the GPL FAQ as applicable. Further, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where source code under those licenses are both the same source code module.

Based upon the position of the Free Software Foundation, you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where linking exists between code made available under those licenses. The above applies to both GPL version 2 and GPL version 3.

Could someone from the processing team clarify the situation regarding these licences? According to the FSF definition, doesn't processing violate the GPL anyway?

Many thanks,

James

Replies(5)

ben.fry

Re: Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

3 years ago

I just spent several thousand dollars out of my own pocket to improve a project that we develop in our spare time, and give away for free. And Chris has done an enormous amount of work over the last few months. And your first reaction is to come make accusations about license violations?

I am not a lawyer, but since Casey and I own wrote and/or the copyright to the relevant portions of the Processing source code, we can probably license however we might wish. So if we need to dual-license a portion under the EPL as well as the GPL, then so be it.

If you think there's some way in which a part of the Processing code is violating the GPL (or any license, for that matter), then you might file a bug for it, since that would be something we'd like to fix.

But think about what you're saying for a second. It's not as though we're somehow trying to get away with something, or gain from misusing others' work. Frankly it would be a lot easier to not release any of the Processing code in the first place, much less the project itself. At least in that case I wouldn't have to deal with crap like this.

james.fry

Re: Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

3 years ago

Hello Ben,

I'm really sorry that you interpreted my comments this way - they really were not intended to be a criticism of the project, the choice of using the GPL for the PDE (which I really sympathise with), nor were they meant to belittle the work that Chris has put into this over the last few months. I'm a big fan of your work and have been for many years.

I certainly was not accusing you, or anyone involved in the project, of trying to get away with something regarding licensing - far from it. I was merely curious as to the position on licensing as I had considered working on an Eclipse plugin for PDE style development in the past (to release under EPL) and decided not to pursue it because of the licensing - mainly because I've come close to being burned by it in the past.

And again, I'm really sorry you took offence to my questions.

Kind regards,

James

PhiLho

Re: Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

3 years ago

IANAL either (I don't think lawyers frequent much programming forums...).
But well, you wrote:
-The PDE and the processing script processor are licenced under the GPL.

- The Processing library is under the LGPl.

- The new Eclipse Plugin, and the Eclipse compiler are EPL.

So, unless you plan to use the script processor in Eclipse, there is no direct conflict between EPL and GPL, so no GPL violation. And you don't mention possible compatibility between EPL and LGPL (is that the same than for GPL? I doubt it.).
Note that project owners can choose whatever license they want, including dual licenses if they think it is fitting.

james.fry

Re: Re: Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

3 years ago

Hi,

I'm not trying to cause trouble, I'm just trying to understand how things stand here.

The Eclipse compiler (ECJ) is EPL licensed (I don't think it is GPL, but I could be wrong), but is called/linked from the PDE which is GPL. GPL and EPL supposedly cannot be used together, which is a shame.

The EPL Eclipse plugins include the GPL PDE, and I think call the GPL script processor.

The EPL and LGPL are fully compatible.

Again, I am not trying to cause trouble, and am in awe of this work. I'm an experienced Java and RCP developer, and have worked for a number of years in applied visualisation research - there is no way I wish to harm or trouble this project. I'd just like to understand issues that might prevent the creation of tools that either support or use processing/PDE.

Many thanks for your speedy reply,

James

PhiLho

Re: Eclipse Processing plugin-in and licencing

3 years ago

Ah, I forgot Processing was using the Eclipse compiler, it is clearer now. If there was a problem, it would be a violation of the EPL license rather than of the GPL one, if I understood stuff correctly (not sure...). And no, Ben, I haven't perceived the initial remark as an attack, rather as somebody trying to point out a potential problem that might need to be fixed.

But, with my limited understanding, I am not sure there is a violation: " you may not combine EPL and GPL code in any scenario where source code under those licenses are both the same source code module"
Apparently, it is about mixing EPL and GPL source code. Processing, to my knowledge, uses the ECJ "out of the box", in its jar form (including the license at the root), so it might not apply. Rules for usage of binary files are different from those of source code reuse, and even slightly different for Java than from native shared libraries, I think...

I didn't know the Eclipse plugin (which I haven't tried yet) included stuff from the PDE, not sure how it applies here.

Top Reply